Autor Thema: Graphologie????  (Gelesen 24269 mal)

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Aldur

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Graphologie????
« am: 13.06.2003 16:10 Uhr »
Seid gegrüßt,

Ich bin neu hier. Gerade spiele ich ein altes Horror-RPG (Waxworks für MS-DOS und Amiga) und da ist ein großes Spielkapitel über jack the Ripper. Dadurch inspiriert suchte ich nach Informationen und fand eure brilliante Seite.

Ich habe eine Frage:

Es liegen doch drei Briefe von Jack the Ripper vor.
Wieso verglich man graphologisch nicht diese drei Briefe mit der Handschrift der Verdächtigen?

Viele Grüsse,

Aldur

Sherlock

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #1 am: 13.06.2003 22:10 Uhr »
Sei gegrüßt Aldur,

nun denn, ich weiss es auch nicht, aber zum ersten hätte der Ripper (und hat wahrscheinlich auch) seine Schrift gefälscht, wenn denn nun diese Briefe auch von ihm stammten; eine 100% bezw. 99 % Aussage ist ohnehin nicht möglich; ausserdem war zu dieser Zeit die Prüfung von Handschriften vielleicht noch gar nicht als Methode zwecks Verbrechensbekämpfung bekannt.

Lang lebe die Queen,

Gez. Sherlock

P.S. : Ich wüsste gerne mehr über das Spiel (viel viel mehr !!!  :D )

Sherlock

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #2 am: 13.06.2003 22:44 Uhr »
Hallo nochmal,

ich hab mich schlaugemacht ! Die Graphologie wurde vor ca. 100 Jahren durch Abbé Jean-Hippolyte Michon eine theoetisch-psychologische Deutungslage, also etwa zur Zeit des Rippers. Sie steckte also noch in den Kinderschuhen; ich bezweifle sehr stark, das die Polizei von dieser damals neuen Methode gebrauch gemacht hat, und selbst wenn, wären die Ergebnisse sehr fragwürdig bezw. schlecht gewesen.

Lang lebe die Queen,

Gez.

Sherlock

Aldur

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #3 am: 14.06.2003 10:08 Uhr »
Hallo,

Auf einem Brief sieht man sogar mit blossem Auge den Fingerabdruck des Täters. War damals auch die Analyse der Fingerabdrücke noch nicht bekannt?

Aldur

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #4 am: 14.06.2003 10:29 Uhr »
Hallo Sherlock,

Wegen Waxworks:

Es ist ein altes Horror-Adventure-RPG (1993).
Manche nennen es auch ELVIRA III, da es aus dem selben Hause kommt wie Elvira I und II. Jedoch sind Elvira und Waxworks ganz verschiedene Spiele... nur nach dem Spielprinzip und Horror gleich.

Bei Waxworks spielst Du einen Mann, der in einen Wax-Museum gerufen wird. In diesem Museum kann er in die Vergangenheit reisen und in der Rolle seiner Vorfahren gegen das Bödse, das seine Familie seit Jahrtausenden begleitet, kämpfen.

Es gibt da mehrere Welten (Zeiten): ein Friedhof, ein Bergwerk, eine Pyramide zur Zeit der Pharaonen und London zur Zeit des Jack the Ripper.
Du kannst je selbst bestimmen woi Du beginnen willst... also gleich in London. :-)

Das Spiel ist ein Mix aus RPG (d.h. Stufenaufstieg durch Erfahrungspunkte, Eigenschaften, Ausrüstung), Adventure (Rätsel lösen, ... wer war Jack the Ripper?) und Action (Feinde töten... SEHR blutig!).

Es gab das Spiel für PC MS-DOS (wenn Du Windows 2000, NT oder XP hast, dann wird es vielleicht nicht gehen) und AMIGA.

Die Amiga-Version hat den Vorteil, daß die Grafik besser ist. Dafür sind leider lange Ladezeiten da.

Bei der MS-DOS Version geht es schnell, aber schlechtere Grafik.

Ich habe gerade mit Google das AMIGA-Spiel zum runterladen gefunden:
http://www.dungeony.cz/hoborg/amiga/games/waxworks/waxworks.htm

Das Spiel mußt Du erst mit WinACE entpacken. WINACE gibt es kostenlos hier:
http://www.winace.com/

Der Amiga-Emulator ist hier:
http://www.winuae.net/

Der Emulator ist recht gut, aber man braucht erst mal eine Weile um mit der Konfiguration rumzuprobieren bis das Spiel dann auch läuft.
Bei Fragen kannst Du Dich an mich wenden.

Wenn Du MS-DOS oder Windows95/98 hast, dann kann ich mal für Dich kuken, wo man die PC-Version bekommen kann. Inzwischen kann man solche alten Spiele im Internet runterladen... sind kommerziell nicht von Nutzen und daher interessiert es die Hersteller oft nicht, ob sie jemand kopiert oder nicht.

Viel  Spass !!!


Aldur


P.S.:
Das Jack-the-Ripper-Szenario ist das schwierigste der vier. Du wirst sofort gekillt wenn Du nicht in das richtige Haus Dich versteckst Ich brauchte eine halbe Stunde um es zu finden. Ich werde mal nachsehen, wo das war... irgendwo gibt es auch Komplettlösungen für das Spiel im Internet. :-)

Sherlock

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #5 am: 14.06.2003 12:31 Uhr »
Hi Aldur,

danke für deine Mühe um das Spiel, werd mal schaun, obs denn nun klappt- bin xp-Benutzer. Aber trotzdem vielen Dank-werd mich mal danach umschauen-wobei ich diese alten Rollenspiele eigentlich nicht kenne. Aber das interessiert mich nun doch...

Lang lebe die Queen,

Gez.

Sherlock

P.S. :

Ähnlich der Graphologie steckte die Methode des Fingerabrucks noch in den Kinderschuhen, wenn nicht soger Babypantoffeln  :wink: . Bin da leider nicht der Experte, wende dich mal an meinen Bruder Mycroft  :wink: . Er ist DER Experte des Viktorianischen Zeitalters...

Offline thomas schachner

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #6 am: 14.06.2003 22:28 Uhr »
hallo,

hier zwei interessante links zum besagten thema.

http://www.graphologies.de/

http://www.graphologie.de/


gruss
thomas.
<~> any propaganda is good propaganda, as long as they spell your name right <~>

CB

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Fingerabdrücke
« Antwort #7 am: 16.06.2003 01:45 Uhr »
Fingerabdrücke steckten damals noc in einer Phase der Erprobung. Eine verläßliche Fassung der Methodik - verfaßt von einem Wissenschaftler namens Galton - wurde erst 1892, also erst nach den Morden vorgestellt, wenn auch diese experimentelle technik während des Herbstes von Whitechapel mehrmals an Warren herangetragen und von diesem (verständlicherweise) abgelehnt wurde. Es dauerte bis 1934, bevor Scotland Yard ein entsprechendes forensisches Labor einrichtete.

Grüße - CB

Und Danke für die Waxworks-Links  :D

Tex Murphy

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #8 am: 08.09.2003 05:01 Uhr »
Die Handschriften unterscheiden sich ohnehin ziemlich. Fragt man sich warum.

Ist da wirklich der Fingerabdruck drauf?

Thema Spiele:
Tja, so kommen die Leute hierher. Ich ebenfalls. In meinem Fall war es aber noch näher am Thema dran. Jack the Ripper heisst es nämlich und benutzt authentische Namen und Fakten (allerdings kann man den Ripper da fangen). Leider weiss ich nicht mehr weiter und bin daher auf der Suche nach Infos schliesslich bei den realen Fakten gelandet. Mittlerweile kenne ich die Hinweise im Spiel schon auswendig so viel hab ich damit beschäftigt, aber es nutzt mir trotzdem nichts.

Jack der untriebige

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #9 am: 18.01.2004 22:21 Uhr »
Habe mal gehört das Grahologen die schrift nicht vergleichen können.

1. Müsst man Probe stücke haben.
2. Hat Jack seine schrieft verstellt und das ganze deutlich dreimal. Einige begehen den Fehler und schreiben die ersten drei Zeilen falsch aber er hat die Schrift durch gezogen ohne seine ware Handschrift zu zeigen.

Offline thomas schachner

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Graphologie????
« Antwort #10 am: 25.02.2004 23:15 Uhr »
hallo alle zusammen,

hier ein interessanter link zum besagten thema:

http://www.apogeegraphology.com/famous14a.html


keine ahnung, wie lange die seite online ist, deswegen poste ich hier die relevanten parts.

---------------


Here are two samples of the most infamous criminal in human history. Jack the Ripper has never been satisfatorily identified. The two samples above depict Jack in his two states of being. The "Dear Boss" letter, dated September 25, 1888 is in his "controlled behavioral" state. This letter is recognized as that of the real Jack the Ripper because the details within this letter were held by the police and not published. The letter states that he will "cut off the ears" of his next victim and send it to the police.

In the very early hours of September 30, 1888, Jack the Ripper struck again in Whitechapel. He murdered Elizabeth Stride, but was almost caught by a pedestrian walking by. Unable to perform his "duties" with Ms. Stride, as stated in the "Dear Boss" letter. He continued into the night until he found another lady. That woman was Katherine Eddowes. He killed her and dismembered her within a space of twelve minutes. Then as he had promised in his "Dear Boss" letter; he cut her ears off and mailed one to the police.

Thus confirming that the "Dear Boss" letter indeed was written by the hand of Jack the Ripper. In those days, graphology was in its infancy. I am sure that Jack might have taken extra precautions had he known about handwriting analysis. However, it leaves us graphologists with incredible samples of the Ripper. The first letter on this page, the "From Hell" letter, was written in October of 1888, just after the double murders of Elizabeth Stride and Katherine Eddowes. Here the proof that this too is by the hand of Jack the Ripper is rather easy. The PPI exhibits the same unusual formation as the other letter; only here the PPI is written in reverse pattern. This is Jack in his "maniacal state of being".

Many graphology traits besides the PPI are the same, only more so exaggerated. Notice the exaggerated extra length of the lower zone, the increased usage of pastosity, and the similar pressure pattern. Only notice how the lower zone in "only" "my" and "bloody" are in reverse formation. The baseline is equally as erratic, but now uphill [showing heightened enthusiasm of his "work"] The writing is much looser and uncontrolled, and now the jumbled lines are completely entangled. The i-dots are still neatly placed, only more heavily pressured. The formation of them is the same. This all proves that both letters were indeed written by Jack the Ripper. The only difference was the mental and emotional states that he shared within the one body.

First I will analyze the "Dear Boss" letter, then show the comparisons to the "From Hell" letter. When I am done, it will be easy to determine who the real Jack the Ripper was. Afterall, he must be able to fit within the framework of his writing. The graphology traits are the person and vice versa. Once we know those traits, it will be easy to eliminate all of the other known suspects. Let's give this a whirl!




All of the following are in reference to the "Dear Boss" letter, dated September 25, 1888.

It is the formation of the PPI that gives us an excellent clue to his true identity. Jack the Ripper hated his father. The feelings were deep and bitter, and Jack kept this grudge within him forever. [notice that the father stroke is compactly curled and with extra heavy pressure]

The lower case "r" in the Dear Boss letter detail the great manual dexterity that Jack had for his "work". Jack also has the classic graphology trait of the defiant "k".

The lower zone is very long, and there are good and light pressured return strokes, but they fall short of the baseline. Still other lower zone loops are tight or covered. The balance between zones is excellent, except for the lower zone being strongly over emphasized. The baseline is completely erratic, and there are "steps" in the baseline often. The baseline is constantly falling. There are "rivers" in the sample.[rivers are vertical spaces which are caused by unusually wide spacing between words at the same point in each line. Here, there are rivers on the left and right side of the letter] The slant is consistently strong to the right.

The writing is very controlled, regular, and artificial. The speed is slow, and this makes the poorly formed baseline that much more ominous as a trait. The spacing looks decent from a distant, but on further review; I can easily see the inconsistencies. Besides the "rivers" which are always a dangerous sign; the word spacing varies, and so does line spacing. I am uncertain of the "true" edges of the paper and therefore will make no inference of the margins, except for the top one. It is normal, maybe a little tight, but nothing so out of the ordinary.

The t-bars are rightward on the stem, high, and the lengths and pressure on them vary greatly. The i-dots are precise and overly pressured along with periods to end sentences. The pressure of the sample varies throughout, and Jack writes his upper zone with a lack of pressure throughout.




The "Dear Boss" letter gives a good clue to his profession. Jack was an educated man, probably wealthy or aristocratic, [the style of writing and flourished capitals] but we also see a rather copybook style. I have often found this style of handwriting in adults, and they are often teachers. Since they are busy teaching children how to learn how to write; they never change from using copybook, rather than deviating and changing their own handwriting as an adult. Jack was most likely a teacher, and maintained the copybook style of handwriting.

The handwriting is controlled and therefore it is hard to determine the intellect and maturity. However, he is very unreliable because of all the varieties of space, size, baseline of the handwriting. This is alarming considering the slow speed of the handwriting. There is a strong aspect of intellectual desire, but that is subdued. Jack does not make the most of his intellect, and he could be considered an underachiever [unreliable qualities in the writing plus a strong penchant for deemphasizing a good sized upper zone with very light pressure]

The control and speed of the writing depicts a person who is cautious and controlled. One would describe the Ripper in this state as primp and proper. The flourishes in the handwriting betrays his wealth. And while he would be described as a "stuffed shirt"; he was more of an extrovert than an introvert. However, it would have been difficult to penetrate his hard personna, and the Ripper had difficulty developing personal and romantic relationships [large word spacing in slow writing and rivers] He would have been involved in social communities to some degree. Perhaps, a men's club would be in order for him. Either that or he would have liked a sportsmans club . He is wealthy and could afford it, and this would give him the people contact he wanted. These people would be more acquaintances than friends.

This would definitely cause conflict since he has a strong sex drive [long lower zone]. He suffered from depressive states, too. [the baseline is downhill, although it could be explained by the angle of the copy machine, however, it is also "stepped" down and erratic] Jack, even though he kept strong control on his behavior, and outwardly appeared in control; inwardly he was a very troubled personality. [the controls he placed in his slow writing still cannot form a decent baseline or prevent rivers]

However, as the sample shows, to the average person; the handwriting looks pretty "normal". This is the artificial personna that Jack the Ripper wanted people to see. A man who was completely in control of his behavior, yet he was impulsive even in this state [t-bars are very rightward, there are no t-bars on the left side of the stem]. Jack would loose his control from time to time and then quickly regain himself. He does exhibit hostility in this sample. [some of the t-bars are clubbed, and changing pressure]. Jack would not hesitate to resort to physical violence, especially if he didn't get his way. He released tensions and stress that built up in his life. If Jack believed that you were the cause of that stress; then watch out. He would get violent.[plenty of light pressured upstrokes and release in written sample]

He enjoyed a desire for libations and enjoyed tactile and sensual stimulation. [some pastosity] In his manic state, this characteristic is even more emphasized. [I'll talk about this later] The defiant "k" is self explanatory. Jack was defiant, and he had strong backbone. It wasn't easy to change his mind; he stood his ground. [straight and strong stable axis]

Jack had issues with his own personal independence versus family and social duties [constantly changing line spacing widths] Here is an area where Jack shows he had difficulties. It is clear that there are great conflicts between his personal desires and with dealing with either his family or social restrictions. In conjunction with the formation of the PPI; I would believe that it was a family matter, especially with his father. He hated his father deeply as noted above.[notice the strongly and tightly curled father stroke] Jack's problems with his family, considering his unreliable and selfish demeanor; would have made him the "black sheep" of his aristocratic family.

Jack shows the signs of mental confusion. Here it is not so bad, the degree is moderate, but it is present [notice that some lines are interlaced, there is no tangling, but that is by design.] Jack is still able to differentiate in this personna, but the signs of mental confusion are enough to start to worry me [rivers and lower zones running into the line space of the next lines upper zone] This also denotes a person who thinks about or is obsessed with sex and sexual activities.

Jack does have good self esteem. He believes in his own worth. In fact, he would probably be considered arrogant. [tall and consistently tall PPI] He would have considered his problems and desires more important than others, and this would add to the conflict; or perhaps explain the source of the conflict with other people and his family. [long lower zone, strong stable axis, defiant "k", changing pressure]

With regard to the formation of the lower case "r". I have seen this graphology trait many times, and how it is exhibited by the individual varies, but there is always some activity which allows the person to express their exceptional manual dexterity. In most cases, the answer is knitting, sewing, piano, magician; in Jack's case, he butchered women and disemboweled them within minutes.

The long lower zone in both samples depict not only a strong sex drive, but also strong physical drives, in combination with heavy pressure; we have the handwriting of a very active physical person. Jack the Ripper was athletically inclined. He would have had some form of physical activity, and since the writing is strongly pressured, the sport would have been a very physical one, and one that required a great deal of stamina. The line spacing is narrow, which tells us he liked to be with social groups and people. The physical activity would be a team sport, or where others were involved in the game. In England, we are looking for a soccer player, rugby, or maybe even cricket.




In sypnosis of Jack in his "controlled" state; we have an aristocrat or wealthy man, and the "black sheep" of the family; educated and intelligent, but an underachiever who didn't develop his intelligence completley. He therefore turned to become a teacher; those that can do, do; and those that cannot do, teach. He was very strong physically, and very physically active; probably a sportsman in a team oriented sport. He was arrogant, self important; and had a huge grudge with his father. He had backbone and had no problem in standing up for himself. He had hostilities and could be impulsive, even through his controlled behavior. Then he would regain control until the next incident occurred. He would be physically violent if the need arose, or he didn't get his way. He was prone to states of depression. His sex drive was strong but unfullfilled. He had difficulties in dealing with his family between his personal desires and those of his family, especially his father. He had somewhat expensive tastes, and enjoyed libations, and that would include strong physical touch.








Now, let's turn our attention to the "From Hell" letter. I'll make comparisons between this writing and the "Dear Boss" letter. With this analysis, I'll concentrate on just comparing the differences and explain the similarities.

The baseline is uphill, the sample is powerful, the pressure pattern varies unusually high between contraction and release, the size is large, and the line spacing is cramped and very tangled. The writing is very spontaneous; there is no control in the handwriting; and the lower zone is extremely long. The sample is kinestetic, or action oriented. The pastosity is very strong and there are ink blotches and ink filled letters. The PPI is formulated in reverse fashion.

The lower zone is extremely long, denoting a strong and true sex drive, but it is the upstroke that is telling here. Now, we see that the upstroke returns to the baseline, and that the lower zone loop is formed in reverse pattern. There is a tremendous amount of sexual release, and Jack is satiated after murdering his victims. The reverse pattern portrays Jack as a man who turned his sex drive toward others. There is a "sail" effect in the lower zone, and this is a dangerous sign. Jack is exhibiting his sex drive against others [reverse pattern] and hysterically[sail effect]. Jack was a necrophiliac, endulging in the blood of his victims[heavy ink blotches, and heavy pastosity] The ink is oozing and letters are completely ink filled. Jack was a severe sensualist. He was excited by taste, smell, and tactile stimuli. He got off at the feel of blood, and the slime from the organs he cut. He probably pleasured at the smell of the feces of his victims as he cut their organs open; releasing the "stench".

The reverse PPI and the rivers in the "Dear Boss" letter depict the duality of Jack the Ripper. The formulation of the PPI in "From Hell" is not as tall as other capitals, and ill formed like the entire sample. Still the hatred of his father shows through, and the upper zone is now written with more pressure. He is "proud" of his intellect in his manic state. The t-bars are still impulsive but more forcefull. This handwriting is going to be one that does achieve. [overall power of the sample, and the t-bars are stronger]

The spatial arrangement is much tighter and crowded. Here Jack is not ashamed of all these feelings. He is just letting it all hang out. Now, we can see the anger, hostility, and strong intellect that is Jack the Ripper. In the "Dear Boss" letter; he keeps everything subdued and hidden; or at least he tries to. With "From Hell", Jack is much more action oriented, and he is letting all his sensual and sexual cravings go wild. [notice that the lower zone length in "bloody" goes all the way to the bottom of the lower zone on the next line] Do you think this man gets off sexually at the sight and feel of blood? Absolutely.

The uphill baseline tells us that Jack is enthusiastic and optimistic of his behavior. Now, he has an outlet for all the pent up frustrations of his life.





Now, can we figure out who Jack the Ripper really was? This should give you a pretty good idea of the personality and character of Jack the Ripper. From this much information, it should be easy to see if any of the suspects of the case fit this profile. If there is a suspect that does; then we have discovered the true identity of the Ripper. If not, then none of the suspects are Jack the Ripper.
<~> any propaganda is good propaganda, as long as they spell your name right <~>

Stordfield

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Re: Graphologie????
« Antwort #11 am: 22.03.2013 12:34 Uhr »
Hallo!

Ich habe den "From Hell"- Brief nach einer Anleitung in einem von Thomas`links untersucht. (Dazu muß ich sagen, dass ein Selbsttest immerhin satte 75% Übereinstimmung erbrachte.)
Die Deutung der Handschrift brachte folgendes Ergebnis:

Jack ist selbstbewusst und bereit,
seine Stärken auch anderen zu zeigen.
Er ist locker und großzügig.

Jack ist ein impulsiver, unsteter, vielseitiger und unkonventioneller Typ.
Es fällt ihm nicht leicht, sich anzupassen.

Jack ist bestrebt, nach außen etwas darzustellen.

Jack ist eher nachdenklich und vorsichtig.
Zuverlässigkeit und Verbindlichkeit gehören deshalb zu seinen Stärken.

Er ist lebhaft und kontaktfreudig.
Mit viel Verständnis für die Belange anderer.

Jack ist ein sehr gefühlsbestimmter Mensch.
Oft werden Entscheidungen gefühlsmäßig gefällt, obwohl bei
rein rationeller Überlegung eine andere Entscheidung die richtige wäre.

Er besitzt so etwas wie einen Beschützerinstinkt.
Ein wenig ist diese Eigenschaft von einer Tendenz zum Beherrschen anderer getrübt,
weshalb dieses Beschützen oft als nicht uneigennützig eingestuft werden muss.

Er lässt sich von seiner Intuition leiten,
auch dann, wenn der Verstand etwas anderes sagt.

Jack ist ein impulsiver und phantasievoller Idealist.


Mal angenommen, der Ripper hätte diesen Brief wirklich geschrieben, wer von den bekannten Verdächtigen, würde dann auf dieses Profil passen?


Dies ist alles mehr oder weniger eine Spielerei, bar jeglicher fundierter Grundlagen, die sich "echte" Graphologen bedienen.

Gruß Stordfield